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Post subject: ****Allspeeds/porting/jetting..Mick & Tony please read**
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Vindaloobeast  Rear-wheel Steering! Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Total posts: 2623 Location: Gloucester |
Right people, you saw my post 'Beasts LC lives' and I talked about the airbox thing and some mismatch between the pipes etc. Well I can tell you with a degree of certainty that the Allspeeds do not work at all well on a Mick Abbey ported motor. This is a really fussy report but I like things 100% so I tell it like it is ok. Ive had the airbox on and off and combinations of both ie with and without filter and trumpet etc. With the filter and box in place the stumble is present at about 5k and gets on my nerves. Theres no way this bike will pull the redline in this combo..it just wont..well in neutral maybe. Without the airbox low down drive is heavily compromised however the stumble disappears but its simply not revving as quick as it should and whilst it will rev higher again redline is hard to reach if at all. I have gone high on the needle and low on the needle in every conceivable combination and it makes little difference. The YPVS inlets make the bike very very linear and it may be true that the pipe is keeping it like this too but it feels just far too smooth and kind of choked and restricted...it wants to go but just holds back. Carbs are 100% spot on balanced and there aint anyone that could do a better job with them..they are perfectly equal.
So..the verdict.
Allspeeds are coming off and Lomas are going on. I dont care what the reports say..the Allspeeds are far too restrictive and dont allow the best from this bike. The cynic in me reckons even standard pipes would behave much better however Ive not given that a chance since the rebuild.
If anyone else has the same set up Id love to hear your views. This one is Mick Abbey ported with barrels matched to cases with YPVS reeds/cages and Allspeeds running standard carbs on 240 mains.
For anyone interested in pootling about it would be ok..Im a bit of a fussy git so it has to be right.
If anyone wants to buy it as it is its yours for 3k no offers. You know the history and this motor is sweet now, just needs tlc with mixture.
Mr Beast.
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Last edited by Vindaloobeast on Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:26 pm
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Bare All-gear Wheelie! Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Total posts: 1909 Location: Vancouver Canada |
Shame really, as you spent a LOT of time on that thing.
But IF you get 3k for it Strongly suggest a Honda (gasp!) 600RR. Younger son's brand new one is Bloody wonderfull.. (really tough to beg time on it though  )
No issues whatsoever.. fast, light, quick, did I say that already? and with 'at least' 100hp to the ground it Flies and Stops. Cost him 4400 GBP (equivalent) Bargain! is the only intelligent descriptor given that my old LC/valvie'd has sucked up at least 2200... so far.
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:28 am
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Post subject: Re: Allspeeds/porting/jetting..
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| NUTTYNICK |
| Vindaloobeast wrote: |
| Well I can tell you with a degree of certainty that the Allspeeds do not work at all well on a Mick Abbey ported motor. |
Well they work very well on my Mick Abbey tuned YPVS motor AND my Trinity tuned Banshee one, no stumbles, just smooth power all the way to the red 
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:56 am
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VindaloobeastRear-wheel Steering! Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Total posts: 2623 Location: Gloucester |
Well they dont on mine.
Can you give me some indications of setup Nick. Ive emailed Tony to let him know the problems but it seems very held back if that makes sense.
Maybe Im being too fussy or expecting far too much from the bike. I like a progressive smooth build up of power then a huge pull as things get on it proper. I cant have it all with these. They are either or. If I sort the bottom end the top is affected and vice versa. Not happy.
Spannies are the way Im going.
Beast.
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:02 am
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tom mac![[RD/RZ Blood Donor]](../img/pipsvip.jpg "RD/RZ Blood Donor")
RD/RZ Blood DonorAll-gear Wheelie! |
taken from the lc club website gallery:
http://www.lcclub.co.uk/images/zorst.jpg
comparison done on the same bike on the same day (was this yours Nick?)
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:15 am
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VindaloobeastRear-wheel Steering! Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Total posts: 2623 Location: Gloucester |
Yes, Ive seen that before however what it doesnt show you is how usable the bike is. Dynos are great and are a good tool for setups however in my humble experience Ive rode many bikes that were setup on dynos that were not road tested and they have been poorly done. The graphs looked sound. In my opinion people pay far too much attn to the top end and peak output and seldom worry about drive/low end.
Lets see what Tony has to say. I think its odd that if I sort low end the top suffers and vice versa. I never had this issue with standard pipes or the Lomas on my old LC. OK yes the Lomas wasnt producing much hp low down but produced good drive and smooth delivery until it went ape later on. I cant live with an either or bike...its got to be progressive and pull hard.
Beast.
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:24 am
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jante350 RD/RZ Jedi Master Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Total posts: 5220 Location: Bergen, Norway |
Are you on stock ignition?
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:14 am
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Tony Mmm, Fully Synthetic! Location: London, England |
I can't really say what is not working on your bike without seeing and trying the bike myself. As you can see the Allspeed exhausts have been sold since 1980 for the LC and are very popular. Yes I agree if you are tuning your machine to make power at the top end of the revs. Then Allspeeds are not really the pipe for this. We make a more race based exhaust for this type of tune, but the Lomas would be ideal to let an engine rev out to 12000rpm no probem.
The printout Tom has posted up for you clearly shows the difference between a mid range and high range pipe. What you loose on the top end of the Allspeed, you gain in the mid range. All depends how you like your bike to perform.
I've not really come accross any LC's that won't run on an Allspeed. They were designed by Pete Gibson to be a replacement pipe for the standard. This they do very well and are idel on a standard engine. But surprisely they work very well on most tuned bikes.
Exhausts are a very personal thing. Most people buy and use what they are happy with. If you can't get the bike to perform how you like on the Allspeeds and the Lomas's are working well. Then I would use them.
If you can get the bike down to us in Romford, then we can set the bike up for you here. We can try the two exhausts you have and even try some others if needed. I'm sorry I can't give you a tried and tested set up that will give you the best from the bike. Every tune is different. I have a customer who has two identical tuned TZR250's. Both were done by the same tuner at the same time. But get them on the track or dyno and they are two different bikes. Even to the extent that they have different exhaust systems (neither are ours I will point out) to get the best from them. Strange isin't the word for it.
Tony
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:26 am
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VindaloobeastRear-wheel Steering! Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Total posts: 2623 Location: Gloucester |
Interesting Tony and yes you are right about 2 bikes never the same. I have an idea that part of the problem may be down to the steel YPVS reeds but mixture is defo playing its part here. I'd like some Harpowa ones or V-force but cant justify it right now. I have borrowed a butchered lid from my mate and Im going to try something a bit unconventional to see what I can do. Im going to re-install the air-filter but Ive drilled 2 big holes in the lid and by big I mean 2" across and Im going to blank them off bit by bit to see what happens. Front first then the back and parts in between. What Im trying to do is leave the needle in the middle until I get a better picture of whats going on. The dyno is a bit too far from me at the moment but I could consider it by bringing it in a van.
I'll go with seat of my pants feel for now...I set up my old bike almost perfectly without the need of a dyno so it shouldnt be a problem unless things are way out. From chatting to Mick its not mad porting, should be tuned for mid range punch rather than top end so the exhaust port hasnt been made into a patio door and no work on the head as far as Im aware. This is different in many ways to a Stephens ST3 tune which has both higher compression and raised port...a st3 wont even run properly with the airbox lid and filter on even on standard exhausts..bolt on Lomas and it goes cuckoo into the red and skywards to boot. The difference then is the smooth faultless transition..I dont understand why this should be any different. I do have some Lomas hanging in my mates garage so I can try a set now and leave things exactly as they are to see what happens.
This is only cos Im a fussy sod mind you..its perfectly usable but I dont like things less than perfect.
I'll let you all know what gives.
Beast.
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:30 pm
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tattiebogle Powerband Master Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Total posts: 615 Location: Scotland |
My motor was exact same spec as yours and the Allspeeds worked a treat all the way to the redline.The bottomend power was exceptional with the Allspeeds..I could just change the pipes to Micks own pipes with no other adjustments and the motor reved to 12,000rpm but was delivering all the power from 6 up..I used both sets of pipes just depended the mood i was in..
Motor same as yours...
Carbs 4LO 01 with Leadar nozzles fitted..
280 main jet..standard pilot
Standard airbox with no filter and trumpet removed.
No holes in airbox lid..
Ignition standard but set to 1,8..
I tried lots of different things for days on end but this was the best setting and for Allspeeds with mega lower power or the Abbey pipes for screaming insanity..
I only wish i had the Zeeltronic kit back then... 
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:59 pm
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andy bush Regular Racer Location: Malvern Hills |
Vin,
Have you tried using a boost bottle ?
One has cured a midrange flat spot on one of my bikes in the past.
Andy
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:01 pm
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VindaloobeastRear-wheel Steering! Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Total posts: 2623 Location: Gloucester |
I havnt tried a boost bottle no. The stumble for most mortals wouldnt be a problem but I dont like it. Its simply too rich there so leaning it out removing the filter sorts it right out..gone altogether..so is the drive.
Tattie, did you leave your lid on the airbox just yank out the filter ? What clip position were you using on the needle ?
Actually thats a stupid question because Ive tried it all and no difference...lol..!
Although my bike was fubarred with the buggered crank I had it running at Robs house really strong at one point but the crank was moving about, however Rob will confirm that even the smallest restriction, ie his wifes undercrackers, caused the bike to play up.
Tatties is very similar. My ignition should be at 1.8 after the rebuild but I havnt checked it..Im trusting the builder.
Also interested which reeds you had Tattie..?
Mr Beast.
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:08 pm
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