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Post subject: for what its worth
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jackster  Regular Racer Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Total posts: 475 Location: Adelaide / South Australia / Australia |
I've been thinking about posting this for a few days and it's doing my head in, so what the hell....
I advertised my LC in the For Sale section last week.
Didn't get any response escept for a couple of local members telling me that the bike is not worth what I am asking for it.
Now how do they come to that conclusion?
Because , they say, bikes don't sell for the same money in Australia as they do in England. They'd like them to, but that's the historical truth.
BUT:
Its actually advertised for LESS than what it cost me to build it, and I'm sure they cost more to build in Aussie than they do in the UK.
And there are far less of these bikes on the market in Aussie and this surely decreases the supply and increases the demand here.
Whilst there are less people here in Australia, that means the market isn't as strong. But the UK is at about 50 odd million now, and we have cracked 20 million in Australia, so that can't be it.
So whay are these bikes pulling $3K (AU$) for a "shitter" in the UK, wherreas opinion thinks my fully rebuilt machine, with oodles of new bits is only worth the same amount?
Maybe its because new bikes are slightly cheaper here in Aussie and therefore used bikes cannot command the same price?
Maybe its also that used bikes in the UK deteriorate to such a degree due to the weather , that there are less used bikes available, simply because less survive?
But then , due to better weather, there would be less Aussie machines surviving, due to more use equalling more being crashed???
And how can Lambretta scooters then be worth so much here in Aussie? they weren't a lot of fun to begin with and now their reliability is seriously questionable, yet they command $8K for a reasonable example in contradiction of the opinions of some.
And why are Vincents $35K in Aussie, where's the market to support that?
What's the difference in this argument?
Only the perception of the market.
LC's were a cheap , good performing bike. Therefore they're always seen as a cheap, good performing bike.
Australia has always been a big bore market. R1s are the WRX of the bike market. Everyone wants one, even if they can't use them. I know an ex-superbike top ten racer who said to me that he couldn't use an R1 on the road!
But the most critical factor in setting a price (I believe) is what the owner will take for the bike.
What the bike means and represents to the owner and what he requiers to lose the machine forever.
Look at those guys posting their old registration numbers, looking for a bike from thirty odd years ago.
They want to re-live their youth and freedom, escape their career and family and take a trip back in time.
I had and RZ when I was 16 and I had always enjoyed dirt bikes up till then. Maybe thats where the enthusiasm came from and the overwhelming desire to own a nice LC arose.
I could have bought a GS 500 or something else light with 50HP and had nears as damn the same experience, but I spent more time money and effort on the LC because it is a classic.
And that comes down to the point I am attempting to make. In the UK the LC is accepted as a classic bike. In Australia , it seems, the LC is just a cheap little bike which goes hard and is fun to ride, its a little bit obscure too.
Perception defines the market price for everything. Even money is just paper (or plastic in Aus) that we THINK is worth something, but it's just paper.
The stock market is driven by perception (& greed) and every once in a while, it readjusts the perception to fit reality.
Maybe the same will happen to RD enthusiasts in Australia (one day)
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:10 pm
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andys350 Daily Burner Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Total posts: 249 Location: black country |
i hope there's plenty of LC's in oz, I expect it would cost a lot to export mine if I emigrate, maybe easier to sell up and buy one down under, but mine is mine you know?
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:28 pm
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mikejeff Mmm, Fully Synthetic! Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Total posts: 1184 Location: the glen of rothes. |
dunno m8 mebee you answer your own question there
in the uk the lc is only a thin market and as you say the speculators catch it right
last year prices were high 3/4k now good bikes are reduced below 2k
just a reflection on how fickle we are
just put a 250 4l1 on the road for me , had 3 offers within a week to buy
but it cost me £1200 ish to build (no show winner ) so with the cost and time
£2000 would be a reasonable price
now for me i'd never pay £2000 for my bike so how can i expect any one else too
dont think you can make cash at this unless your geared up for it
look at the property development shows on tv for an indication of the general
situation
same rules apply
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:32 pm
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jacksterRegular Racer Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Total posts: 475 Location: Adelaide / South Australia / Australia |
I am a property developer and I'm not trying to make cash from LCs.
(in fact I'm not making enough from the properties, which is why the bike is on the market.)
What I'm trying to say is that PERCEPTION DEFINES THE MARKET AND ASK WHY WE PERCIEVE THINGS DIFFERENTLY.
And how can I be making cash from it, if I'm selling it for less than it cost 
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:08 am
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| p51bombay Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Total posts: 9909 |
simple answer is the Brits are a daft lot  - and what most make/pay for stuff if $ they do the same in pounds - so twice the price to non UK folks. Plus although the LC was popular worldwide - the UK is probably the hub at least today as many were imported, many rode them in their (misspent) youth and therefore many want them again it their 40's.
Only 20 million in OZ................where do I sign?
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:23 am
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jacksterRegular Racer Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Total posts: 475 Location: Adelaide / South Australia / Australia |
Yes, I agree, that is a simple answer. But the bikes are as expensive to restore anywhere. Do the English just have more money than the rest of us?
The market is specific to its location.
The Australian market is, I believe, under valued and the defenintion of this is how many machines are on the market.
Simple supply and demand will affect prices.
I remember the days when there were five or so RDs/Zs advertised for sale in the paper every week. Now there are one or two every month and god knows how long since there was a running 4LO anywhere in the country.
There are guys advertising mint RG500s for $10K here in Australia.
There was even a bloke who had a NEW RD350 & a RZ500 not even run in, in Victoria some time ago. He wanted $10K for the 350 and $15K for the 500.
Since classic car values have more than quadrupled here in Australia, that would tend to indicate economic prosperity has inflated the price of classic cars. Why wouldn't bikes go the same way?
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:04 am
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zigcoorsDaily Burner Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Total posts: 162 Location: Derby, UK |
Surely the value of any item is what somebody is willing to pay to obtain it?
You just need to match the right buyer to your bike 
Ian
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:37 am
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flat-spot One-handed Stoppie! Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Total posts: 2149 |
| Quote: |
Yes, I agree, that is a simple answer. But the bikes are as expensive to restore anywhere. Do the English just have more money than the rest of us?
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I think these 2 points answer your own question. Generally yes we do have more money. We are also a spending nation and if we don't have the money it is far to easy to borrow some if needs be.
Also in general the money you plough into a resto is rarely retrieved in a sale. It's wrong to assume if you spend $5000 in parts the bike is worth $5000.
If you want another example of the differences in prices between the 2 countries have a look at what we pay for VW camper vans. Perfect ones are going for £40K
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:12 am
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1966 Powerband Master Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Total posts: 627 Location: Pig on the wall country |
| zigcoors wrote: |
Surely the value of any item is what somebody is willing to pay to obtain it?
You just need to match the right buyer to your bike
Ian |
Ditto
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:27 am
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BillyOne-handed Stoppie! Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Total posts: 2216 Location: Sweden arise! |
Here, an lc in okey condition will cost you about £800.
Thay are about as cheap as the 125's! It's insane to be honest, pretty nice with normal prices though.
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:08 am
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| p51bombay Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Total posts: 9909 |
You lot even pay more for a new bike, take a Concours 14/1400GTR - same bike, different stickers, but rather different RRP in the US vs UK
US - $12899 non ABS ( £6588)
US - $13799 ABS (£7048)
UK - £10,995 ABS
So model for model you pay £3948 more for the same made in Japan bike.
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 2:51 pm
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| beek |
The long and short is.
If no one wants it then it dont sell.
Ive seen many bikes in the u/k not sell so they break them as a rout of getting some money back. just because youve spent thousands on it doesnt mean its worth anything
Nothing isnt worth nothing unless some one want it. get two people interested and the price can go up. get a dozen and hey you can name the price,
in these days we have to live and learn ive bought things in the past worth f, all now but thats life other things i own have made me money,
this is what makes the world go around.
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:34 pm
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